Bill introduced to raise the NFA tax

[RenegadeConservative]

@renegade... You are espousing what we put in our petition, a background check "for persons who are responsible for directing the management and policies of the entity..." Not *everyone*. The bare minimum so that there was at least one check done. And that was offered in lieu of eliminating the trusts/corps completely.

I figured that you had something of the like in your proposal. It seems like a reasonable balance to me.

There are actually many cases winding through prosecution where prohibited persons got weapons via trust/corp purchase with no background check. It is nigh impossible to break out the cases through PACER or TRAC because it is a general charge with no specific modifier for "he bought a can through a trust," etc. I'm trying to lay my hands on good numbers. Sadly, the fact that there were enough folks who did exploit the process made some sort of action by the Fed inevitable.

This is news to me. I would never have thought that the average crook would waste money setting up a trust and then wait several months just to be able to have a papered NFA item.

I agree that government is woefully inept at enforcing the laws they have and that adding even more is rarely a good solution. With that said, if we (NFATCA) do nothing, there will be more regulation without ANY checks. And if we attempt to provide those checks we will get excoriated for fraternizing with the enemy. To the point where we receive death threats. And I am not kidding.

The current administration is the lousiest we've had since Nixon. They have had ample opportunity to address the problem of gun violence in this country but have failed to do so. I'm beginning to think that the status quo actually like gun violence. It gives them a platform to stand on with the average uninformed American.

It is unfortunate that the NFATCA got screwed by the powers that be in this particular scenario. It is also unfortunate that so called gun owners are resorting to emotional outbursts of rage instead of calm logical analysis. This is the kind of garbage that we are to expect from the "other side" - not ourselves.

The screaming masses want nothing short of working to ban Hughes and the NFA. That is certainly a noble goal. We've actually looked at what it would take to mount such a legislative campaign... during an administration that was receptive. Tens of millions of dollars. We are hard pressed to get a couple hundred folks to pony up $50 a piece. So, for now, we fight the things that we can afford to fight. EVERYONE told us that they wanted the CLEO signature gone and we have been waging that fight for nearly a decade. Hardly anyone kicked in a few bucks to wage the fight. Yet we still did it. We got further than anyone ever had and had ATF/DOJ sign off until the White House took a giant dump on the process. Somehow, that is our fault. Newtown gave the WH all the bully pulpit they needed to screw things up. And for the record, we got the ball rolling in the Bush administration. It's hard to just pull up stakes and say "Never Mind... we'll wait until a gun guy is in the WH." You cannot start and stop and start the process. You have to be in it for the long haul.

It seems like the NFATCA is going to need some major support from the major gun rights organizations in order to get things done in this political climate. The members of such organizations will need to put pressure on these orgs, especially the NRA. Congress also needs to get off their backside and fulfill their constitutional duties. The ATF has been running rampant for too long and is in major need of an overhaul.

[ExecDirector]

To quote a Clint Eastwood movie... We shall endeavor to persevere...

[ExecDirector]

There is no current CLEO sign off requirement for trusts. It has not gone through rule making at this time. There is a huge backlog and ATF's Counsel Office *did* increase the check list items on trusts because so many folks were submitting just plain bad trusts. Ones that were cut and pastes from the webs, not properly constituted or funded, etc. So many folks doing it on the cheap...

[ddnc]

There is no current CLEO sign off requirement for trusts. It has not gone through rule making at this time. There is a huge backlog and ATF's Counsel Office *did* increase the check list items on trusts because so many folks were submitting just plain bad trusts. Ones that were cut and pastes from the webs, not properly constituted or funded, etc. So many folks doing it on the cheap...

I understand there is no sign off on trusts now but that is the intention. Mine was prepared and drawn by an NFA attorney and is 40 pages. It runs concurrent with real estate/property trusts so these and title 1 and title 2 firearms as well as millions of dollars in collateral are retained in my family. I currently hold 25 stamps and have never had an issue until 2.5 months ago when I received an error letter asking to remove the trustees names (2 individuals) from box 3b. That was never an issue on the previous 23.
I do agree that a legal instrument as such should be drawn up by an attorney and not by an online document. I think it further confirms the legitimacy of said document and like I said for me, this is not some mickey-mouse one time, I just want a sawed off shotgun thing. It is a substantial multifactorial investment entity.

[jason8844]

I do not have a horse in this race. I have done all my Form 1s and form 4s as an individual, and my local sheriff will sign off on the forms with no problem. However, I do feel invested in this because I believe that NFA weapons should be available to everybody without a hassle, and I know I may not always live in a jurisdiction where the sheriff will sign.

Ddnc,
I know this may not make you feel any better, but I submitted a form4 as an individual back in March. It did not go pending until May. So the backlog between the cashing of the check and the date it goes pending is about the same for everybody regardless if it is a trust or an individual. I personally think the huge backlog is due to a bunch of people running out and buying NFA weapons during the gun crunch of this year.

I feel your pain on the wait times, I currently have two stamps in pending and I am mailing out two more this week.

[darrylta]

Again, it boils down to Hussein Osama's leadership and the drones he places to head these agencies. It's not only the ATF,,it's all across the board.

I thought I remembered hearing Osama state the he wanted to have a heavily armed civilian force, as well armed as the professional US Armed Forces.
I guess he now knows the current civilian gun owners would defend the Constitution and against invading armies, not his dictatorship.

I wonder when we'll start hearing about his third term push, you know we now have a mob rule democracy government, not a rule of law republic government.

It's coming,
Darryl

[darrylta]

I used to have a C&R Trust many years back, it was later dissolved by the ATF, saying it was issued in error. As a precaution I reregistered my trust guns to my personal C&R license
even though the ATF had stated the were legit, but shouldn't have been mailed directly to my home????

I didn't want to leave a vague loophole so I reregistered them. Who can trust these guys and future administrations from reckless unlawful acts??
-Darryl

[jason8844]

Darryl,
I am always amazed how a nation of free men like us will happily vote away our natural born rights to citizens and extend benefits and rights to non-citizens. What kind if nation does this and remains free and prosperous?

For example, I was reading an NRA-ILA update today about the California legislature advancing anti-gun bills but also advancing bill to give welfare and drivers licenses to illegals.

There is a fundamental problem with our nation and more than half the population has no issues with it. They are blind to the politicians selling them down the river to give away their progeny's future to illegals so the ruling elite gain temporary power, fame and fortune.

As Reagan said "We have a rondevu with destiny". I personally believe that day is fast approaching.

[ddnc]

It most likely will not be an issue to get a CLEO as I live in a non metropolitan town in Texas and it is a very,very conservative community. The reason for a trust for me is to retain this property to my heirs and Jason although I am right down the road west from you last year it was 90 days from mailing to stamp receipt. Like clockwork.

[jason8844]

I read this quote today and it reminded me of our NFA quandary and who is to blame.

"Debating gun control with progressive liberals is like playing chess with a pigeon. Eventually the pigeon will crap all over the board, knock over all the pieces, then strut around like they've accomplished something."