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Thread: CLEO sign off. Time line to be effective?

  1. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    23
    Okay lets re-examine what the abstract says: which will be in italics and my replys in bold I will first try to explain what I think the change means and then go over what I think the potential problems or issues I can see from this.

    Abstract: The Department of Justice is proposing to amend the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) regarding the making or transferring of a firearm under the National Firearms Act. The proposed regulations would
    That is basically a title and that states the proposed changeds would be the following.

    (1) add a definition for the term "responsible person";
    This will be pretty straight forward and I think this only applies to Entities (Trust/LLC's etc..), and it will include all members of the Entitiy.


    (2) require each responsible person of a corporation, trust or legal entity to complete a specified form, and to submit photographs and fingerprints;
    This is what I think will happen:
    An added form or forms that will be required that will list every person that is part of the entity. I could imagine the form would look like the following description:Left side half of the page will be boxes that will require, Full Name and address and on the right half of the page have a place to attach a photograph of the person in that box OR it will be very similiar to box 22 on the current FFL applications but will add a box to attach a photograph. Also for every person listed you must include TWO sets of fingerprints. Simple fact this will prevent prohibited persons from being able to use a Trust or LLC to acquire NFA firearms.

    Issues or problems I see with this:
    It doesn't mention anything about this being a ONE time submittal, sounds more like they are going to require this EVERY time and in duplicate. If that is the case applications with Entities of 10+ membersis going to back log the background check system so transfer times WILL increase 10 fold or more.



    (3) require that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the maker or transferee is located; and
    This is what I think will happen:
    All Indviduals or Entities that submits a Form 1 or Form 4 to the NFA branch will also have to send a copy of all forms being submitted or maybe just the Form 1 or Form 4 to your local CLEO pretty much how it currently is when you get a C&R FFL. It currently doesn't make it clear which form or forms will have to sent to the CLEO. I like that it basically says F*CK YOU to all those CLEO that wouldn't sign in the past.

    Issues or problems I see with this:
    The CLEO will/can also start keeping a database of what NFA firearms are in their county however they may not be legally allowed to keep those copies since they are considered "tax" documents. Of course who knows if the CLEO are currently keeping copies of forms they have signed in the past? I really don't like this section and think it shouldn't be a requirement at all.



    (4) eliminate the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO.
    Honestly this really benifits everyone because even if your CLEO did sign, it may have taken him weeks or months to sign it and you were at the mercy of the CLEO, and we know when the NFA was established in 1934 they relied on local CLEO to know who was a "bad guy" in their jurisdiction. This is a big WIN!!!!

  2. #12
    Nicely done. I only take exception to your number 1 review. I feel confident that just as an FFL holder can list responsible persons that do not include *every* person, so will trusts and corps. For instance, the trust could list the current trustees as responsible persons and not the beneficiaries. And that list could change over time. I suspect a new form in the offing. And with that said, I'm not sure how ATF intends to regulate this. Let's say I add my daughter to the responsible person list. She's already a trustee and beneficiary on the trust document, but I choose not to make her responsible until she is 21. She becomes 21 and I add her. She's technically already able to possess by the trust, but I assume there is going to be some waiting period while NFA Branch "approves" the addition and notifies us. Or maybe not!

    I could also see this going the way of barrel length change notifications on SBR's. All you do is notify ATF and you only get an acknowledgement if you request one. I just don't know. It's a very kludgy, unwieldy mess that is coming, no matter what.

    As for the CLEO notification: consider that a political sop. CLEO's already had the ability to keep store and codify this data before. This doesn't go away. This, from what I understand, was the trade advocated by the Sheriff's Association: CLEO's give up the signature process and get blanket notification without having to participate as a gatekeeper. Many CLEO's hated being the gatekeeper because their opponents used it as a club in elections. Now EVERY CLEO is on an equal footing.

    As for storage of the information, again, I suppose they could and always have been able to do it, but... There is no federal funding to provide for storage of the records. And I seriously doubt that in this day and age that many jurisdictions are going to allocate much additional funding for a "new" record keeping program caused by the feds. I could be wrong.

    Jeff Folloder

    NFATCA Executive Director
    www.nfatca.org










  3. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Longwood, FL
    Posts
    44
    Any updates? I know ATF was saying they were hoping everything would be ready to go aroung the begining of the year.
    Richard Hoffman
    Master Gunsmith

    BWE Firearms/ Uzi HQ
    Longwood, FL
    407-592-3975
    richard@bwefirearms.com
    www.bwefirearms.com
    www.uziparts.com

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